President Donald Trump complained that an interviewer for ABC News wasnât âbeing very niceâ when he refused to back up the presidentâs claims about a Maryland dad who was mistakenly deported.
During an interview Tuesday with Terry Moran to mark the first 100 days of his second term as president, Trump insisted that Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was mistakenly deported to El Salvadorâs brutal CECOT mega-prison on March 15, had âMS-13â tattooed across his knuckles.
âThereâs a dispute about that,â Moran said, trying to move on to the next topic.
âWait a minute. Wait a minute,â Trump objected. âHe had âMS-13â on his knuckles, tattooed.â
âHe had some tattoos that are interpreted that way,â Moran clarified. âBut letâs move on.â
Earlier this month, Trump posted a photo on social media of Kilmar Abrego Garciaâs hand showing four tattoosâa marijuana leaf, smiley face, cross, and skull. In the picture, the numbers and letters âM-S-1-3â were digitally added above each tattoo to argue that the symbols were a code to signify gang membership.
Experts, however, have said the tattoos are not associated with Mara Salvatrucha, a criminal gang that originated among Salvadoran immigrants in Los Angeles in the 1980s. The gang spread to Central America when its members were deported to El Salvador after the Salvadoran civil war ended in the early 1990s.
Criminal justice experts told CBS News that members have been known to tattoo the gangâs colloquial name âMS-13â on their bodies, along with images of devil horns. But a community activist who had worked with gang members for more than 25 years said he had never seen a gang member with Abrego Garciaâs knuckle tattoos.
A former gang member turned professor told CBS he had consulted current gang members, and even they donât think the tattoos stand for MS-13.
âWait a minute. Terry. Terry, Terry,â Trump said during Tuesdayâs interview, refusing to move on.
âHe did not have the letter âM-S-1-3,ââ Moran said.
âIt says âM-S-1-3,ââ Trump insisted.
âThat was Photoshopped,â Moran said.
When Trump first shared the photo on April 19, internet sleuths argued it was misleading because Trump did not make it clear that the image had been digitally altered to include the alleged gang âcontext.â
The presidentâs online defenders countered that it was obvious the letters and numbers had been added to illustrate the presidentâs claims. Trumpâs exchange with Moran, however, made it seem like Trump believed the letters and numbers were part of the original tattoo.
âThat was Photoshopped? Terry you canât do that,â Trump told Moran.
âHey, theyâre giving you the big break of a lifetime,â he continued. âYouâre doing the interview. I picked you becauseâfrankly I never heard of you but thatâs OK. I picked you but youâre not being very nice. He had âMS-13â tattooedââ
âWeâll agree to disagree. I want to move on to something else,â Moran said.
âTerry. Terry. Do you want me to show you the picture?â Trump said.
Moran said heâd seen it, and repeated again that Abrego Garcia only had tattoos that can be âinterpretedâ as evidence of gang membership. He tried to turn the topic of conversation to Russiaâs invasion of Ukraine, but Trump wasnât having it.
The administration has tried to justify deporting Abrego Garcia, a migrant from El Salvador whom an immigration judge had granted a form of legal protection called a âwithholding of removal order,â by saying heâs a âterroristâ and a member of the notorious MS-13 gang.
The 29-year-old is married to a U.S. citizen and was working full-time as a sheet metal apprentice when he was suddenly detained and deported without being allowed to appear before a judge.
He doesnât have a criminal record, and no court has found him to be a member of a gang. Instead, Trump officials have offered up tenuous evidence of Abrego Garciaâs MS-13 âmembership,â including the tattoos.
âNo, no. Terry. Terry,â Trump insisted. âNo, no. No, no. He had âM-Sâ as clear as you can be, not âinterpreted.â This is why people no longer believe the news, becauseââ
At that point Moranâwho had responded to Trumpâs earlier digs with a smileâsighed the kind of deep sigh that parents of toddlers know well.
He pointed out that the word âMS-13â doesnât appear in any of the photos of Abrego Garcia that have been taken since he was deported to El Salvador.
âTerry!â Trump interjected.
âUkraine, sir,â Moran practically begged.
âHeâs got âMS-13â on his knuckles, okay?â Trump said. âYouâre just such a disservice. Why donât you just say, âYes he doesâ and go on to something else?â
âItâs contested,â Moran replied. âUkraine.â
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